The GOSPEL TRUTH

LIFE of

WILLIAM BOOTH

FOUNDER and FIRST GENERAL

of the SALVATION ARMY

 by

Harold Begbie

1920

In Two Volumes

Volume 2

Chapter 17

 

WHICH TELLS OF DISPATCHES, A STORM AT SEA, HOW WILLIAM BOOTH WAS BOARDED IN A BEDROOM AND BORED AT A TEA-MEETING, AND OF AN INTERVIEW WITH W. E. GLADSTONE

1894-1896

 

IN the year 1894 the Salvation Army had extended in the eastern hemisphere to so remote a suburb of civilization as Java, and with this fresh manifestation of the worldwide application of its principles to hearten it still more, the Army held an International Congress in London. One feature of this Congress was the celebration with ebullient enthusiasm of the jubilee of the General's conversion.

These International Congresses, let us pause to say, are of considerable interest, since they demonstrate with unmistakable force the universality of the great central Christian principle of conversion. The thousands of delegates who flock into London on these occasions are drawn from almost every country under the sun, and it is a curious fact worthy of reflection that the same enthusiasm which we know so well in our English Salvationists characterizes the delegates of all these other countries. Few sights are more impressive than a march-past of these Salvationists from Europe, Asia, Africa, and America, every face shining with a like happiness, every voice singing with a like enthusiasm. I know of no other religion except the Christian which has this catholic effect, and no other form of the Christian religion except the Salvation Army which has this catholic expression of gladness and confidence.

in South Europe during this year, preaching salvation with the energy which fires the interview set out in our last chapter, but receiving, as always when absent, wherever he went long and important "dispatches" from his Chief of Staff in London.

Although we cannot concern ourselves here with the history of the Army itself: it is important for our study to state that William Booth to the end of his life not only required to know what was being done in every field of Salvation enterprise, but ceaselessly influenced the organization of this huge machine, and overruled without hesitation the decisions of his subordinate Officers when he disapproved them.

The" dispatches" of Bramwell Booth--exceedingly long and business-like letters, beginning "My dear General," and concluding "Yours affectionately"--kept the General informed of every new move and every fresh development in the operations which every good Salvationist describes as "the War." One may be tempted from a careful reading of these documents, in which important changes are occasionally announced and apologized for on the score of time pressure, to conclude that Bramwell Booth was not always in mourning for his father's absence; that he seized, perhaps, on the opportunity of his situation to carry out reforms or initiate new undertakings which, had William Booth not been preaching on the other side of the globe, might have tarried long or might perhaps have taken different forms.

Here and there the General disapproves and comes angrily down on his Chief of Staff; but, on the whole, it is clear that in spite of a few grumbles and hesitations he acquiesced in the decisions of his son and affectionately acknowledged his work. Bramwell was a man who did not fuss the General but fixed him. He knew his father's character with such confident intimacy that he could advance boldly and far where another Officer would have feared to move an inch. And the love of father and son was so profound and beautiful, so essential to the happiness of both of them, so necessary to the welfare of the Army, that Bramwell could act with the perfectly certain knowledge that nothing he attempted, be it successful or unsuccessful, be it growlingly praised or angrily censured, would be judged by the General as a step towards self-aggrandizemeat or a deviation towards any assumption of his father's authority.

While the General preached, and the Army celebrated its International Congress, Bramwell Booth, who had to overlook the arrangements of both these important matters, was deep in the work of the Darkest England Scheme. We cannot pause, unfortunately, to tell the story of that benevolent enterprise, but it is part of William Booth's story to know that his intense love for his son, and his complete confidence in Bramwell's judgment, were deepened and intensified by the work of those years--work so very difficult and so entirely new to the ordinary routine of the Salvation Army that its triumph must always remain something of a mystery. It is enough to say, perhaps, that the Army with all its other work, home and foreign, set up in Essex, with a thousand agricultural perplexities in its way, one of the most successful land colonies in this or any other country--and a farm colony manned by labourers who but for Salvation Army succour would almost certainly have sunk to the depths of destitution in London slums.

Most of the difficulties of this undertaking were solved by 1894, and in 1895 the Farm Colony, which was to amaze Mr. Cecil Rhodes, received a visit from the President of the Board of Agriculture--that charmingly picturesque Victorian, that most unlikely Salvationist, Mr. Henry Chaplin, now Viscount Chaplin. In one of the dispatches sent to the General an account is given of this important visit, which deserves to be noticed, perhaps, by Lord Chaplin's biographer:

Mr. Chaplin was accompanied by Sir Hugh Owen, who is the permanent Secretary to the Local Government Board . . . apparently a very able man, and Mr. Little, who is a member of the Board of Agriculture and a regular Judge in prize competitions at all sorts of Agricultural Shows and Government valuations . . . a very able man. There were also a couple of Private Secretaries in attendance. Without going into a lot of detail, I am glad to be able to say that all passed off most satisfactorily: they were all charmed beyond measure at the place, and astounded not only at what they saw we were doing with the land, but at the whole organization of the undertaking. The Fruit, the Market Gardens, the Grass Land (!) on the Marshes, the buildings, all came in for unstinted admiration. The appearance of the men whom they saw at work and the plan upon which the Colony is organized impressed them enormously. Mr. Chaplin said he had never seen anything like it, nor had any idea that we had got anything of the kind. Little, the Agriculturist, said that if we had anything like ordinary "luck" the place could not help but be a great financial success; advised the extension of Fruit . . . especially the Bush Fruit. He thinks that Strawberries are more dangerous for us.

Now then comes the great question which always arises in such circumstances as these. Chaplin said to Lamb two or three times in the day: "How can I help you?" Lamb also heard him say to Owen: "This thing ought to be helped; what the devil can we do?" Their whole attitude was one of sympathy with us. Mr. Chaplin said to Lamb: "Of course it is a matter for the Treasury. We have no money at the Local Government Board. Show me how I can help you and I am willing to try."

I have been so ill that really I have not been able to think or do anything else this week, but I think I can see my way to getting a scheme by which the parishes can send people to us before they have become workhoused, and of course Mr. Chaplin of all men can help.

 

Another visitor to the Colony, in 1895, was Mr. W. T. Stead. In a further "dispatch" to the General we read:

On Monday last Stead visited the Colony and was very much impressed and surprised. He came on to see me here on Wednesday morning, and we had a long talk about the future of the scheme. He was evidently completely captured by what he saw at Hadleigh--the place, the agriculture, the men, the officials, the whole thing came upon him with a freshness of an entirely new idea, and he was charmed beyond measure.

Now he is full of desire to help us, and seems to feel some of that enthusiasm which is always a good sign with him. His idea is to go straight and hard for the Prince of Wales. He argues that there is no man living who is so likely to help us as the Prince, and there is no doubt something in it. Stead, of course, is practical, and says that what we want is plenty of money and to be let alone and we will show these "wooden heads" what can be done. He is very friendly indeed with one or two people, who are just now very close to the Prince, and I have given him full permission to go on following his own lead and doing all he can to get hold of his men in his own way.

Nothing came, so far as we can discover, of this suggestion that the Prince of Wales should lend his patronage to the Farm Colony, but we know that the Prince was at least interested in the Darkest England Scheme and cherished a rather genial and man-of-the-world admiration for the social reforms of the Salvation Army.

Trouble of a serious kind occurred for the Army in 1895. An outbreak of smallpox led to an inquiry into the shelters which the Army had set up all over London for the immediate succour of the houseless and the starving. This inquiry was followed by a prosecution, and by some very cruel insinuations in the Press. Mr. Chaplin was asked a question in the House of Commons, and his answer was sent to the perambulating General at the other side of the world by the Chief of the Staff:

My attention has been called to a report in The Times of the 15th instant as to proceedings instituted by the Vestry of St. George the Martyr, Southwark, with alleged overcrowding of the Salvation Anny Shelter in Blackfriars Road. I understand that the case was adjourned, and no decision has yet been given by the magistrate in the matter, and I think, therefore, that I cannot properly make out any observations with reference to the evidence referred to. The Local Government Board are aware that a considerable number of cases of Smallpox have occurred amongst persons who have been relieved in the Salvation Army Shelters. In the early part of last year the Board directed an inquiry as to the arrangements in connexion with these Shelters, especially as regards dealing with cases of infectious disease, and at the beginning of the present month I requested that further inquiries should be made by one of the medical inspectors of the Board as to precautionary measures taken at the shelters with a view to the detection of cases of smallpox among the persons admitted. The general result of the inquiry would appear to be that the Salvation Army authorities realize their responsibility in the matter of smallpox, and are anxious to do all in their power to prevent the spread of that disease by means of the shelters. The Local Government Board are not empowered to enforce a medical inspection. Any powers for this purpose, apart from those which may be exercised by the medical officer of health, could only be obtained by legislation. The subject has been receiving my attention, and the question as to the alteration of the law with regard to these and similar other institutions will be considered by me.

 

In another dispatch the General is told of the progress of the case:

The case came on yesterday, the 10th (of October), after the long adjournment which I reported to you in my last on the subject. Our case was opened by the evidence of an eminent Chemist--Professor Wanklyn, which was aimed at destroying the very foundation of the case on the other side, namely, that a fixed cubic space must be provided for each sleeper irrespective of ventilation. I think we carried the Magistrate entirely on the point, and if so, the battle may be said to be won. The Professor is an old man, whose business it has been, as he told the Court, to teach Medical Officers of Health their business, and when, therefore, he was confronted with their evidence, he brushed it aside in capital style. The case is again adjourned for fourteen days. The Medical evidence which we have to call will, I think, finish it.

 

At this time of his life William Booth formed the habit of writing what he called a Family Letter--that is to say, a letter addressed to "My dear Children," which, having been read by Bramwell and his wife, was then passed round the entire family circle. These letters are a very extraordinary mixture of Salvation Army business and personal adventures. Many of them were written on board ship. A few examples will give the reader a taste of this new correspondence, and place him, we hope, in still closer intimacy with the character of William Booth:

 

I have just been discussing with P. on the deck the possibility of our preparing a set of Regulations applicable to Australia, U.S., Canada, and elsewhere .... How ever the Territories outside Great Britain have done as well as they have with the little attention given them--that is, little compared with what has been given to Britain is a constant puzzle to me as I go along .... Australia and nearly every other Territory left to-day to imitate Great Britain and adopt its Orders and Regulations at its own sweet will! This should not, must not, shall not be. Take a further illustration. In the U.S. the internal arrangement has grown up according to the judgment and choice of Commissioners. This must all be reduced to system. We have given our strength to Great Britain. We must work for the world over.

The Unity of the Army is an unceasing wonder to me. I repeat with unspeakable satisfaction what I said, I think, in my last letter, that I have felt in Africa that the Officers and Soldiers of Johannesburg, Durban, and Cape Town, and every other Corps visited, are as much one with International Headquarters as are the Officers and Soldiers of Bristol, Glasgow, or Newcastle-on-Tyne--or more so. On looking on any English-speaking country I have come to think the same sentiment will equally apply, and very nearly the same may be said of any other Territory. Anyway the Officers and Soldiers anywhere only want to know International Headquarters a little better to make it so.

 

April 13, '95.

 

I am determined to be more faithful--more personal than I have been. To this end I must have more of the power and wisdom of the Holy Spirit. It is God the world wants, for which the Church languishes and is without grip of the thoughtful portion of it--indeed any portion of it.

The S.A. will only be a blessing as it carries God to the hearts of men. That is our business. To baptize with "Fire."

 

Sept. 22.

 

The rolling of the ship has really been beyond either rhyme or reason and my poor head has ached and ached and ached again. . . . To add to the discomfort it is fearfully cold .... I am gradually getting cold to the bone. And as one cannot walk the deck or take exercise with any sort of comfort there is nothing for it but to go to bed. It is true they have taken the Saloon, but it is so stuffy and there is generally such a clatter of tongues or music or children that work is all but an impossibility.

Children . . . yes, children, for there are some of the worst behaved little things opposite my cabin whose din attends me all the time, that I ever met with. There is a little boy about five years old whom for beauty--specially when the most splendid head of hair that I ever saw is taken into consideration--and for self-willed disagreeableness for his age and weight I will back against the world. Oh, they are a "lovely" set!

We make little headway with any spiritual work amongst the passengers . . . the Saloon lot appear to be very obtuse and earthy. I wonder what you are doing? Various things I suppose. Do you wonder--do you find time to wonder about me?

I am thinking much about darling Mamma. . . .Oh how many times I wonder, does she know what we are about down here!... Oh the mystery of existence, and oh the mystery of passing out of it! Yesterday at eight in the morning they buried a man in the deep, deep waters who had died the day before. He was a Saloon passenger, came on board at . . . where he left his wife and two children. He was a German, quite a young man, going to New Zealand for some purpose or other and coming back to Africa. Instead of which he has gone into eternity.

I never saw a funeral at sea before, and I must say it impressed me very much. The passing of the man; simply sewn up in canvas and with the outward form of a man seemed to realize to one so much more vividly than the coffined dead, that it is a man who is being passed away. We cast our dead into the sea, and then there came to our minds the time when "The sea gave up her dead."

Our steward has been telling us that just about this point a man jumped overboard on the last voyage of the same steamer. So that on sea as well as on land the words I heard read by the Captain from the prayer-book yesterday morning are being fulfilled: "In the midst of life we are in death."

To sit with my cabin chair tied from the four corners of the little square room, swinging to and fro with the ship, trying to write and think while freezing with cold, dinned by those screaming children, is not altogether favourable to health of body or of brain--to say nothing of the stuff that is produced!

The American said he was ashamed of living in such a one-horsed planet--for my part the size is all very well, quite passable; anyhow, will do for the present; it is the quality of its inhabitants that is a grief and a shame to me.

Oh what a strange jumble we have here, and the garb of a sort of religion is carefully thrown over us all by the Captain in the Church Service every Sunday. He reads the prayers, absolves everybody from their sins, and then reads a sermon which is very good indeed so far as it goes . . . the sin and ruin of it all being that it helps to make these utterly Christless people think that somehow or other there is nothing particularly wrong about any of them. Peace, Peace, and yet there is not an atom of real foundation for Peace. Good-night, my darlings.

I have dreamed so much about Mamma on this ship and yet not a bit of comfort in any of them. Oh how I wish--but it's of no use wishing.

I have been no little exercised ihe last few days about my grandchildren and considering whether I do not owe them some duty beyond what I am at present discharging. Surely I do nothing for them at the present moment beyond praying for them and greeting them kindly when we meet.

What can I do? I have been wondering how it would be if I wrote them a monthly letter. It could be typewritten and passed round to each family where there were children old enough to understand it. Mothers and fathers might--would think it of sufficient importance to read and explain and preach a little from it and so help to impress this precious oncoming generation with the great sentiments and principles I want to cherish.

If they would not pretend to be Christians I could do with them.

A bad night is evidently before us. ---- announced to me this morning that he had resolved to treat the sea and all it could do to him with haughty disdain. He is holding on to his resolution so far. But ----, I hear, is already laid down, the others will doubtlessly follow; all but the valiant ----. He holds up in all weathers alike and takes walks, and eats his food as well as on land and better--if that were possible!

We . . . were off at four, and almost from that very hour have been more or less in a state of torture difficult to describe. It must be experienced to be felt! I had a real bad 36 hours .... Poor ---- has been very ill and is so still. ---- keeps up by keeping down. ---- had a great go and now is hard at work. ----has just announced that he thinks he is round the corner. His "haughty disdain" had an ignominious finish. He gave in, and has since been at the mercy of his foe--mostly in a prostrate position.

. . . is patient and always beautifully willing to do what he can. He has a kind heart and a wonderful stomach--oh that I resembled him in the last peculiarity--that is, at sea!

You may judge something as to the tossing when I tell you that the very stewards were sick, and Colonel Lawley pronounced it serious!

This last night has been simply a terror. A poor lady came down our passage at 2 o'clock this morning seeking some one she styled "Jim." Her brother, I guessed. She was in a great fright. I heard her ask a steward if he had ever known anything like it before! Then she rushed at my cabin, but retreated, on not finding "Jim" there, for some other part of the vessel. Poor thing, I was sorry for her.

Let me quote again my old favourite verse. I don't know where it comes from, but it always goes to, as it comes from, my heart---and specially in this case in applying it to our beloved Army:

Her passage lies across the brink

Of many a yawning wave,

And devils wait to see her sink,

But Jesus lives to save.

 

Arrived safely at his journey's end on the other side of the world, the General at once gets to work.

 

When Colonel---- went to the Minister of Public Buildings to take the Exhibition Building, he said in answer to the question, what would rent be--" Well if you don't have any of these -- parsons on the platform it will be £2 per day, but if you have them in a row, looking through their fingers to see who else is there, it will be £12:12s. per day."

At five I went on with ---- to Government House. His Excellency received me kindly, as kindness goes with that class, and I had a few words with Lady ----, but I was disappointed as to any heart intercourse. I could not understand why they [the Salvation Army authorities in the city] had pressed me to go there for the night, and I was sorry, almost as soon as I got there, that I had exchanged the intelligent, intellectual, genial atmosphere of the Chief Justice's residence for the cold, stony clime of Government House. We went to the meeting. My throat and chest seemed to make talking to the great crowd impossible for any length of time. However, I was in for doing what could be done.

There was a beautiful audience, the Chief Justice was all urbanity and heartiness, and at it we went--the Governor was in the chair and made a neat little speech--rather cold. A letter was read from the Bishop regretting a previous engagement, but praising our social work in the city, before the Governor's speech. My turn came and I went at it. From the first sentence I found we could be heard, and I gave what I considered a temperate but flashing and interesting talk.

I turned round once or twice to look at the Governor, having a feeling that he was not right, and sure enough he looked the picture of mortification. He has a yellowish complexiom, but he was absolutely saffron colour. I went on, however, and looked again and again, but not once the whole night did he relax or smile, the whole hour and a half I was on my feet.

Meanwhile the Judge, who had seated himself before me with the ladies, was laughing and shaking and clapping all through.

A vote of thanks was moved by the Judge, and seconded by the Mayor, who told us that he had only come in for a few minutes, having another engagement, but that he had been so taken up with the speech that he had forgotten his appointment, and begged to support the vote of thanks with all his heart.

The proceedings terminated in the most friendly manner. The Governor walked home. I rode with Lady----. Over the supper we talked in a friendly way, but on retiring to my room the Governor accompanied me, and to my surprise instead of handing me a cheque for the work, which I thought quite possible, turned on me by saying that he regretted having taken his sons and daughters (girls he called them--young women they are) to the meeting in view of what I had said about "Lost women, etc." He then went on to say that I had intimated that everybody who was not doing S.A. work were living frivolous lives, and went on with a rigmarole about what was being done in the East of London. How his daughters were doing work amongst the poor, etc., etc., helping George Holland and the like. This, together with some more talk of the same kind, I must say, cut me up a little. Because I had been very careful to guard myself by starting with the remark that I came there in no spirit of depreciation of other work, etc., and as to offending good taste or saying what young girls and boys could not hear without being in any way damaged, I did not understand how that could be, as all over the world I have talked on these themes and never had a breath of objection in this direction.

The next morning he tried to be a little friendly, but I assure you I was glad to get away from Government House, notwithstanding the apparent kindliness of Lady---- and "the girls."

Was it not strange that a Brewer, who has an interest in the pubs of Ratcliffe Highway, should lecture me after this fashion? "What about other people's daughters?"

Stayed with Judge ---- Comfortable home and cared for by the longest, rapidest-tongued lady it was ever my lot to run up against. Her like I could only hope that it may never be my lot to listen to again.

At 6 a banquet had been arranged at a Ladies' College. Fine pile of buildings, belonging to the Methodist Church and partially supported by public subscription. I supposed I was simply going to meet the leading men and women of the place and to have a word and introduction and friendly talk with them. To my surprise we were marshalled into a large apartment, and after about 100 nabobs, male and female, had marched in and seated themselves at tables beautifully ornamented and heavily laden with turkeys, etc., the young College Lady Students, dressed in the highest and, I think, the loudest costumes, came along. There must have been 70 or more--frizzed and curled and adorned in the most approved worldly style.

The loud talk of these girls rose above the conversation of the elder and more sober portion of the gathering, until even the Principal was dismayed. Perhaps it was my face disturbed his equanimity a little. However, at the end of an hour he proposed that I should speak as long as I could find time and strength for. But I said I could not speak with the clatter of cups and plates going forward. He suggested that the company would finish in quietness if I started. But you don't catch old birds with chaff, and I simply said, and that pretty bluntly, that I should not get on to my feet till the eating and drinking entirely ended. Whereupon he called them to order; which meant, cease eating and drinking. Which they did or nearly so, and entirely so before I had spoken a dozen words.

It was no easy matter to meet the expectations of that gathering and deliver my soul of its burden at the moment. However, I did the latter. I said a few words on the S.A. and then put my University question to the young people, prefixed by the remark: "There, that is what I have done with my life. What are you going to do with yours?" I drove that in with all my might--an awe as of death and judgment settled on the trifling young creatures, and we adjourned to the Opera House for a Social Meeting. We were crowded there and had an enthusiastic night.

On the 2Ist of December, 1896, William Booth drove over to Hawarden Castle from Keighley to see Mr. Gladstone. Mr. Herbert Gladstone met him at the entrance, and in the drawing-room Mrs. Gladstone and Mrs. Drew received him kindly and brought an old-fashioned easy-chair (whose manufacture he mourned as a lost art) to an open fire, and bade him warm himself. Presently Gladstone came, welcomed him in the most kind and friendly manner, and bore him off to the library.

William Booth had often wished to hear Gladstone speak, but his work had kept him away from "the big nights at the House." Describing the effect made upon him by Gladstone, the General said afterwards that he would not have recognized him from his photograph if they had been face to face in a railway carriage. "The features in the public prints are, as a rule, larger, and, to my fancy, seem to have a hard and masterful look about them, a look which certainly failed to show itself to me for a single moment in the original that afternoon." He thought the statesman's face "intelligent, expressive, quick, and commanding in a high degree, and equally sympathetic and kindly."

Gladstone having flung a fresh log on the great fire, the two leaders sat down opposite each other.

Gladstone started the conversation by saying, "I suppose in addressing you as General I use the title to which you are accustomed, and which harmonizes with your own feelings?"

William Booth said that that name defined his position properly. He spoke of the usefulness of the Salvation Army's military titles, because the most undisciplined and ignorant man knew that when he joined a Corps, the "Captain" stood for authority, and was some one to be obeyed.

Gladstone asked how the Central Authority of the Army could be maintained, extending all over the world, while allowing that free and energetic local action so necessary to vigorous growth?

The General described the various commands from Territories to Corps, but Gladstone asked again how they maintained the Central Authority?

The General replied that he chose the Territorial Commissioners, and could extend or diminish their five years' term of office.

Gladstone asked if Officers in positions of authority in other lands were chiefly sent from England? The General replied that it was so at present, but that it was a first principle with the Salvation Army that each people must work out its own spiritual regeneration, "that Americans must conduct the War in America, that Frenchmen must evangelize France, that Indians must mission India, and the like."

Gladstone inquired into the finances of the Army, and when he was told its probable annual revenue, and that the great bulk of the sum was made up by the voluntary contributions of the poor, he exclaimed several times that it was very remarkable.

The conversation turned to the general question of the state and prospects of Spiritual religion, and Gladstone asked William Booth which country stood most favourably in this respect? William Booth wrote:

I felt it a difficult question to answer, and I said so. So far as Protestant Churches are concerned, I thought there was a good work in progress in some parts of Holland; otherwise I was afraid that Protestantism, as a rule, was very broad, very cold and inactive, and so far as practical godliness could be estimated, one country did not appear to me to have much preference over another.

"Is not Romanism making progress in Holland? .... Yes," I said; "there are, I believe, some advances in that direction." "Had we experienced any considerable measure of opposition from the Church in what might be termed Catholic countries?" I replied that while many priests watched our movements, and set a careful guard on those of their people who might be influenced by us, some of the more philanthropic among the clergy had manifested much interest in my Social Work, and in some cases have expressed their warm sympathy with me in other ways. And I could hardly say, either on the Continent or elsewhere, that we had suffered more actual opposition from the Catholic than we had done from the Protestant Clergy.

 

Gladstone asked if the Salvation Army had any measure of success among Catholic populations, and being told that it had, asked: "But what becomes of those Catholics who come to the penitent-form?"

 

I replied that while some became Soldiers in our ranks, it was quite a common thing for others, while regularly coming to our services, to continue, at the same time, their attendance at their own Church, and to assure us, with evident sincerity, that they were striving to live better and nobler lives.

"They come to your penitent-form and then go to confession?" I replied, "Yes."

"But how do they regard you?" I remarked that it was not unusual for the more thoughtful and devout amongst them to tell us that we ought to be Catholics. They considered us, I thought, to have much in common with Francis of Assisi, or perhaps with Madame Guyon and the mystic class of religionists.

 

The General spoke of the importance of the experimental aspect of religion, and how they looked on every man as right or wrong with God, and, if he were not saved, said in their hearts, "Now is the accepted time, behold now is the day of salvation." The Army, he said, was more successful in dealing with the poor and ignorant than the comfortable and better educated. Gladstone replied that the illiterate and unprejudiced condition of the poor was mentally favourable to that simple obedience to the truth necessary to salvation. He spoke of the wealth and habits and tastes of the age being enemies of religion, and said with evident feeling, looking away into the distance, "There is nothing, I fear, easier of acquisition than the aspirations and the language of devotion while living a life the opposite of all they imply."

"I do not know," General Booth says, "whether it was the mention of religious books that led to it, but Mr. Gladstone remarked, with some emphasis, that there was nothing that surprised him more than the objection he found running through many religious works to what was described as 'Self-righteousness.'"

"While I cannot understand," said he, "how any man with any true knowledge of his heart, or of his life, or of the Holy God whom he worships, can possibly conceive that anything he can think, or feel, or say, or do, can be deemed worthy of presentation before Him, as constituting any meritorious ground on which to claim His favour, I do think that instead of condemning righteousness, in any form, its cultivation should be encouraged, and its all-important need insisted upon."

Gladstone asked "with a serious and somewhat apologetic air" what the arrangements for the successorship were?

William Booth explained how each General was to nominate his successor, giving the sealed envelope containing his name to the Army Solicitors: there was a Deed to legalize this.

 

Gladstone was deeply interested. "It was a peculiar position, he said, that we had taken up. Even the Pope, he suggested, was elected by a Conclave of Cardinals, and he thought we must go back to the sixteenth century to find an example of a system of personal nomination by the person occupying the post of authority similar to the one I have chosen." The General mentioned a scheme for providing against the danger that would "be caused by a General passing away who had neglected the appointment of his successor, or who, for some calamitous reason, had become incapable for, or unworthy of, his position, and for selecting a new General, in an assembly of all the Commissioners throughout the world." The General named one or two of the possibilities that might occur, and Gladstone added, "Yes, and the possibility of heresy would come under that category." The General spoke of Cardinal Manning. Mr. Gladstone was not surprised that the Cardinal should make the observation as to the Holy Spirit's influence on my work to which I had referred, nor at the spiritual tenor of his conversation at the interview, as, from his own observations, he believed that Cardinal Manning had attached very much more importance to the work of the Holy Spirit during the last few years of his life than during his former career. They parted with great friendliness. William Booth was very much impressed by Gladstone's geniality, by his perfect command of words, and by his earnestness. "He put his heart into my business, and that right away, going straight to the very vitals of the subject as phase after phase of it passed before him . . ." He brought away the impression that "among the many things carefully considered and experimentally known to W. E. Gladstone were the governing influences of the Holy Spirit and the saving Grace of God."

A few days later the General received the following letter from Mr. Gladstone:

 

HAWARDEN, Jan. 2, 1897.

DEAR GENERAL BOOTH--I thank you for the promise contained in your kind note that you are sending me, beside the books you refer to, a note you have made of the conversation between us.

You are quite right in saying that it was not part of my purpose to express definite opinions upon the very remarkable and interesting circumstances which you were good enough to lay before me. Apart from the formation of such opinions, I had useful lessons to learn from the reception of such a communication. It helps me to look out upon the wide world and reflect with reverence upon the singular diversity of the instruments which are in operation for recovering mankind, according to the sense of those who use them, from their condition of sin and misery; and encourages hearty good-will towards all that, under whatever name, is done with a genuine purpose to promote the work of God in the world. The harvest truly is plenteous; may He send further labourers into His harvest.

Believe me to remain, with all good wishes, faithfully yours, W. E. GLADSTONE.

 

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